Jim
ps
I don't see the presence of Christ in your internet literature!!
I am new to the Local Church. I
see the presence of Christ there. They are not perfect like you
seem to act like. I disagree with much of what you have written
on your website. You put only those responses that you approve
of. Many of them are very weak!!! I read the Bible not just
the
recovery version and I read more old
literature like from Zindendorf, Nee, Law and other seasoned
authors including Moody, Spurgeon, Finney, Wesley etc. I believe
I know what I believe.
No need to respond to this.
Jesus had problems with the Jewish religious elite. He was
controversial. I believe Him and not his antagonists. I challenge
you to put this response on your web page.
Look to Christ, not to religion,
Jim
BCBSR Response
1Cor 3:11-15 is speaking of losing
things as one would loss possessions in a house fire. What is lost are
potential rewards. But what the Local Church teaches in their purgatory
scenario is not simply loss of rewards. And yes, I myself quote from
Local Church literature the very same quote that you quote.
Furthermore they say, "If a person has become a Christian but
his hands or feet sin all the time, he will suffer the punishment of
the eternal fire in the kingdom of the heavens. He will not suffer this
punishment eternally, but will suffer it only in the age of the
kingdom"
Wouldn't you agree that
it's one thing to lose one's possessions in a fire. But quite a
different thing to be tortured in fire until you pay back all you owe?
Maybe you don't see a difference between the two. But a whole lot of
people, like myself, do see a difference.
Is it about earning rewards
for services rendered? Or is it about paying for sins which were not
covered by the blood of Christ? The Local Church teaches the latter.
Notice even in the statement you quoted, "all the sins that have not passed through
the blood of the Lord Jesus" And that's consistent with their
other statements on the matter such as,
"If a Christian has any unrepented of and unconfessed sins, which are
not forgiven, he will suffer the Gehenna of fire." and "In the coming age, there is still the
possibility of forgiveness, but one cannot come out until he pays the
last quadrans and clears up everything with his brother."
Their purgatorial scenario
is not even about sanctification. It's about justification. They
believe that a person can pay for his own sins by being tormented in
fire sufficiently. That being the case, Christ needn't have died. For
if a person can be justified by being tortured, then all those in hell
would eventually pay for their own sins and be saved, regardless of
whether they believed in Christ or not.
Seems to me they're
treating Christ's blood as a rather common thing in reckoning that
forgiveness of sins can be attained apart from the blood of Christ, by
simply being tortured sufficiently. Yet you're glad at their new
"evangelistic effort".
You also mention Matthew
claiming "God cannot forgive you
unless you forgive OTHERS." What you fail to realize is that
Jesus was talking about diagnosing a person's salvation status. He was
talking about gaining salvation. But of course implied in the Local
Church purgatory theology is a gospel of justification by works. As
I've written about abundantly throughout the over 2000 web pages I've
written on the bcbsr.com site,
those who are born of God do behave as children of God should because
it is in their nature to do so ("My
sheep
listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 and "No one who is born of God will
continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on
sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 One aspect of this natural
behavior of children of God is forgiving one's brother. The Local
Church in its Free Grace theology has fabricated an artificial category
of people that don't actually exist in their insistence that those born
of God can continue to live a lifestyle of sin. But to make anything -
any work you do - as a precondition for salvation is to preach
salvation by works. If you think a person must forgive others in order
to obtain salvation, you must have a whole list of things a person must
do to be saved, much like some in the early church had made salvation
contingent upon obedience to the Law of Moses - like the 10
commandments. How good must a person perform before he by saved by your
account? As I see it "Believe in
the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved". What a person does,
having been saved, does not impinge on his salvation status.
But of course I'm sure you
read my site thoroughly before you commented saying that you don't see
the presence of Christ in my internet literature. Afterall it says, "He who answers before listening— that
is his folly and his shame." Pr
18:13 So I'm sure you thoroughly examined my internet literature
before making such a judgement.
Now you say you're new to
their church, so given that they try and put on a different public face
than private face, you may have yet to encounter their private
teachings which they try to avoid saying publically, such as I had
noted on my web page and the following also:
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ON THE NATURE OF GOD
“...the entire
Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh.” — God’s New Testament
Economy (1986, p. 230)
“The traditional
explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and borders
ontritheism. When the Spirit of God is joined with us, God is not left
behind, nordoes Christ remain on the throne. This is the impression
Christianity gives. Theythink of the Father as one Person, sending the
Son, another Person, to accomplishredemption, after which the Son sends
the Spirit, yet another Person. The Spirit,in traditional thinking,
comes into the believers, while the Father and Son are lefton the
throne. When believers pray, they are taught to bow before the
Fatherand pray in the name of the Son. To split the Godhead into these
separatePersons is not the revelation of the Bible....” — Life
Messages, p. 164 (1979)
“The Son is the
Father, and the Son is also the Spirit.... and the Lord Jesus who is
the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He is also
the Father.Hallelujah!” — Concerning the Triune God, pp. 18-19 (1973)
"In resurrection, He
became the life-giving Spirit" - 1998 Living Stream Ministry
ON THE NATURE OF
HUMANITY
“Christ is of two
natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we areof the
human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and we
arethe God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we
are theboards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are
different, but innature we are exactly the same.” — The All-Inclusive
Christ, p.103 (1989)“God can say to His believers, ‘I am divine and
human,’ and His believers canreply, ‘Praise You, Lord. You are divine
and human, and we are human anddivine’.” — The Triune God to Be Life to
the Tripartite Man, pp. 51-52 (1990)“My burden is to show you clearly
that God’s economy and plan is to makeHimself man and to make us, His
created beings, ‘God,’ so that He is ‘man-ized’and we are ‘God-ized.’
In the end, He and we, we and He, all become Godmen.”—A Deeper Study of
the Divine Dispensing, p. 54 (1990)
“We the believers are
begotten of God. What is begotten of man is man, andwhat is begotten of
God must be God. We are born of God; hence, in this sense,we are God.”
— A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing, p. 53 (1990)“Because the
Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ,we
may say that the Triune God is now the ‘four-in-one’ God. These four
are theFather, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body. The Three of the
Divine Trinity cannot beconfused or separated, and the four-in-one also
cannot be separated orconfused.” — A Deeper Study of the Divine
Dispensing, p. 203-204 (1990)
ON THE AUTHORITY OF
THE SCRIPTURES
“We do not need the
Bible study classes; we need the weeping classes to weepfor the
spiritual poverty and deadness. We must listen to the Spirit, not just
readwhat is written. We must listen to the present, instant speaking of
the livingSpirit. Why have Christians been divided? It is simply
because of the differentteachings and doctrines. The more teachings
there are, the more divisions therewill be. All the various teachings
and opinions have done much damage to therecovery of the church. I fear
that some of us are still under the influence of theBabylonian
doctrines. May the Lord have mercy upon us that we may forsake allof
those teachings, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. Let us
go backto Jerusalem with the Spirit. We all must have our “heads cut
off.” — The Stream“Then the fourth thing that we must see in order to
participate is life! We allmust know life. Revelation is a book of
life. Do not pay attention to the forms, theregulations, the teachings,
the doctrines, Christianity and religion. No, we mustpay our full
attention to life. Today, if you were to ask me how to be victorious,
Iwould tell you that there is no need for you to try to be victorious.
Just say fromdeep within, “O Lord, Amen, Hallelujah! O Lord, Amen,
Hallelujah! O Lord, Amen,Hallelujah!” and you will be so victorious.” —
The Stream
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These are the kinds of
things they teach. All I've said is true. There's nothing that you
presented that would indicate I've misrepresented the Local Church,
seeing as I'm simply quoting what they say and commenting on it. It is
you who have overlooked the quotes I mentioned. Why are you trying to
misrepresent them by overlooking what they themselves say? You're only
a newcomer. If you want to defend their beliefs you need to make sure
you know what their beliefs actually are. And then determine whether
their beliefs are your beliefs.
You say concern the debates
I've posted with Local Church people, "You
put
only those responses that you approve of. Many of them are
very weak!!!" That's actually more of an insult to them. For
what I have posted is typical of such debates and what I've posted is
relatively comprehensive. Fact is there is no strong argument for the
Local Church theology. And what you've written is just as weak as
others. You say, "I challenge you to
put this response on your web page." Fine, yet another weak
Local Church response.
Local Church Responder
WORDY WORDY
WORDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I
DEFINITELY don't see the presence of Christ in your RESPONSES!!